Conclusion on State of Geogia apology - 3.9.2007.3
Concluded from Part 2...
An example is that of Senator Hillary Clinton, which I quote from my previous post, Commenting on Sen. Hillary Clinton's Dr. Martin Luther King Day speech, “when you look at the way the House of Representatives has been run, it has been run like a plantation, and you know what I'm talking about.” Or in comments from Senator Obama mentioning that he is “home” in Selma. Or virtually any other politician during Black History Month, on Dr. Martin Luther King’s birthday, to humble or humiliate their opponents, or other noted dates of importance to Black Americans. Such comments belittle what was done, marginalizing the acts, and in my mind prove that the connection is real in the minds of all Americans. So why won’t politicians move forward and apologuize at least [other than those already noted]?
I have asked several in the current group of Presidential candidate hopefuls their position on this question. Not one has answered me. I ask all the Pesidential candidates now, will you support an apology from the government to African Americans for slavery and segregation and the various civil rights denials for more than 346 years?
I ask Mr. Hargrove, and Speaker Richardson, to provide me a sound and evidence supported argument that disputes my position. I ask them to show me how America has not benefited from slavery, how that is not connected to today, how there are not Americans alive right now that denied rights to Black Americans, and how the effects of more than 3 centuries of abuse and disrespect do not exist today.
Please help me with this effort. Pass this on to the above mentioned individuals, and every politician in the nation. Post this on the blogs of the candidates for President. Let’s hear exactly why they will not pursue at least an apology, and at best provide some form of reparation for the $9.7 – 24 trillion earned by slaves. Let them explain why they cannot seek forgiveness for the wholesale slaughter of Rosewood, the destruction of Tulsa’s Black neighborhoods in 1921, the Tuskegee syphilis experiments, and segregation to name a few items.
I really look forward to their responses.
This is what I think, what do they think?
Labels: African American, Black History Month, Dr. Martin Luther King, presidential election, Reparations for Slavery, Rosewood, Senator Hillary Clinton, Tuskegee experiments
posted by M. Vass @ Friday, March 09, 2007
3 Comments
3 Comments:
Obama’s link to slavery should not be an issue. African Americans who research their family trees are likely to discover they have black as well as white ancestors who onwed slaves. In the United States, thousands of free blacks owned slaves. Some of them were simply purchasing relatives out of slavery, but others bought slaves for the same reason white plantation owners bought slaves. One of the South’s biggest slave owners was a free black man who was notorious for his harsh treatment of slaves.
Modern-day Americans may equate the world "slave" with the word "black," but that is true only because of a lack of historical knowledge. The word "slave" derives from the word "Slavic," or Eastern European. Eurpean slaves were still being sold in slave markets in the 1800s. There were also white slaves in colonial America. These are not to be confused with indentured servants (indentured servitude was actually a pretty good deal). These white slaves and their children were wholly owned by their masters the same way black slaves were owned. There were not nearly as many as white slaves as there were black saves because white slaves were in high demand in the Muslim world. This made them too expensive compared to black slaves that could be purchased relatively cheaply from the African slave markets.
Most Europeans are the descendants of slaves as well as slave owners. The fuedal system began replacing slavery in Norther Europe during the Middile Ages when landowners discovered collecting rents was easier than owning slaves. Even the Irish's beloved Saint Patrick was a fomer slave.
Native Americans also practiced slavery, before and after the European discover of American. The largest slave market that ever existed in the Americas was the one the Aztecs operated in pre-Colombian times. The Native Americans raided European settlements to capture white slaves, who were bartered between the tribes. The Spanish enslaved Native Americans as well as blacks. The American Civil War did not end slavery on tribal lands. The U.S. goverment ended slavery following the Civil War by buying slaves from the tribes. The Cherokee were the last to give up their slaves. The Cherokee Nation recently voted to ban the descendants of Cherokee slaves from the tribal rolls.
Southern plantation owners tended to be "land rich" but "cash poor." Their wealth vanish along with slavery after the Civil War. The real profits from slavery went to Northern merchants who operated the fleets of slave ships. These merchants amassed huge fortunes which they used to finance the industrial revolution. The industrial revolution benefits black as well as white Americas. (African Americans obviously enjoy a higher standard of living and greater freedom than Africans whose ancestors were not transorted to America.)
Slavery was a global institution that the United States inerited from its predecessors. It ended slavery within two lifetimes (men who knew the signers of the Declaration of Independence lived to see the abolition of slavery in the 1860s.)
Rather than ask modern-day Americans to apologise for something for which they are not to blame, we should encourage them to continue their support for Civil Rights iniatives, including affirmative action, for a few more decades.
Thank you Blair for visiting the site and your response. I hope I can reply accurately to the points you have made.
In reference to Senator Obama, I was making the point that he and all other politicians use events in history dealing with Slavery and Civil Rights to bolster their connection to and support of Black Americans. Yet I am aware of no politicians beyond those mentioned in the post that have taken a stance on either an apology or reparations.
More directly my reference to Senator Obama was about his connection to the Civil Rights Movement, of which there is no direct link to my knowledge. It has come to public knowledge that his mother is the descendant of Slave owners, which as you correctly state is not an issue. Like my own family, which can be traced back to 1863, many American families can trace their heritages to either a slave or slave owner, or both. America is interconnected on a very tangible basis by this fact. It is neither a surprise nor a complication.
As for free blacks owning slaves, I am unaware of this. If you have any links that document this information, and/or details the treatment of those slaves please provide it for me and the other readers. Also I ask that you provide the name of the free black that was “one of the South’s biggest slave owners.” I would like to research this individual. Given that information, I still do not see how that changes my position that black slaves built the infrastructure of the nation, worked the fields that provided the agricultural crops that provided the economic basis of the nation, and were unpaid and poorly treated. It does not change the fact that unlike the other examples I stated in the post, both in this nation and internationally, apologies and/or reparations have been given for actions nations and governments have taken – in some cases centuries or generations later.
I see where you have found information on the root of the word slave. I do see it’s connection to the Slavic people, though not to Eastern Europeans in general. Still the self-designation of the Slavic people does not hold the meaning of slave, in fact meaning “the famous people". Perhaps in the 6th century this was not the case but by the 15th century it was. The slavery I refer to and many in America think of is from the 17th century meaning.
I also agree that slavery has existed far longer than what was known here in America. Slaves were know to have existed as far back as Ancient Egypt if not before then. The Ancient Romans were know to have slaves as well. In fact it was not until perhaps the 19th century that slavery ceased to exist in the world in a substantial manner.
But the nature of that slavery is not similar to what was know to exist in America. Unlike most other nations, empires, or tribes American slavery took a form that was by and large uncommon. Most forms of slavery, specifically those found in Europe which strongly influenced America, were actually indentured servitude. The term indentured servant and slave were largely interchangable, and nearly all slaves had either the ability to eventually buy themselves out of slavery or have their children not be bound in the same manner. In Ancient Rome it was possible to eventually become citizens or at least second-teir citizens as the generations passed. Spain was most well known for their laws that specifically stated the conditions and responsibilities of slave owners and slaves. As well as their ability to end their service.
Initially this indentured servitude was enacted in 1619 British America, but changed quickly and by ~1660 had been entirely replaced with codes restricting liberty and allowing what we have historically documented as slavery in America. American slavery differs from all others that I am aware of as this form considered the slaves as property no different than chairs. There were no rules providing for the treatment of the slaves and no rights for the slaves. There was no way for a slave or their family to exist this condition. These facts separate American slavery from all other forms that I am aware of. If you have other information to correct me on this please do provide me links to that information.
In reference to the white “slaves” I believe you mean the indentured servant from around 1619 and shortly thereafter. There were rules for those individuals and they did have rights. They were considered human beings and not property. They had the ability to end their servitude. If you are refering to the white sharecroppers of the late 1800’s then again we are addressing individuals that had rights and freedom, but were economically restricted. Yet they were free and could, at least theoretically, buy their total freedom from the system. As for those slaves of the time of the Moors, they too had rights. The Moors had to provide for their slaves and were bound by laws inregards to those slaves. Again I must iterate that they were never considered mere property.
As I mentioned previously, virtually every nation or people on the earth at some point were the slaves of another group, region or government. There is no question on this. The point is the treatment of these people at that time and their ability to eventually evolve from that status, which to my knowledge was always provided for. That does not mean the treatment they received was wonderful, just that the conditions were different and they were not mere property considered less valuable than livestock.
I must dispute your claim that plantation owners lost their incomes and slaves after the Civil War. This is not true. While the carpet baggers did remove a great deal of wealth from the South and Southern land owners many were able to re-build their fortunes. Many also did not suffer immediate poverty. America at that time was still an agriculture based economy and the wealth of the nation was derived from the crops grown in the South. This was the primary cause of the Civil War from the North’s position. That is a fact. While some may romanticize or politicize the reasons for the Civil War, the facts are that the economy of the nation was dependant on the South, and losing it doomed the North.
In addition slavery did not end with the 13 or 14th Amendmants. There continued to be slavery in the form of Jim Crow laws that removed the rights of Black Americans in the South. Those laws continued to exist until well into the 1960’s. While there was no defined slavery, there was the defacto existence of it via these Jim Crow laws and the actions of White Southerners of the time. While some aspects of that imporoved over time, lynchings, denial of the right to vote, and other restrictive actions were not uncommon well over a century later.
The industrial revolution occurred predominantly in the North, and did improve lives of Black Americans as compared to those in the South. Even given this there is no question that Black Americans were regarded as 3rd-class citizens at best. Even as immigrants from Europe flooded the nation, they were all considered better than African Americans and would not associate with them. While compared to Black Americans their status was still a step above and improved with rapidity in relatively little time. This is a fact and easily apparent when compared to the non-acceptance of African Americans even in the 1970’s and in part today.
I give you the deaths of Mr. Sean Bell as the most recent example. I submit when was the last time you heard of a non-African American being shot 10 times or more by several police officers, whether that individual was armed or not. I cannot think of any time, other than the 2 bank robbers in California that were in flak armor and carried assault weapons.
Lastly I differ with you on the question of how quickly slavery ended. From it’s start in 1619 to it’s “official” end in 1865 there is 246 years. Considering that a generation is accepted as 20 years that would be over 12 generations. If you wish to look at the shorter period from the independence of America then the time is 89 years or roughly 4 generations. I will submit that it was possible for an individual born at the start of the nation to live to the 13th Amendmant enactment, but considering the considerably shorter life span of most people in that timeframe I doubt it’s possiblity. In either case this is still a substantial timeframe.
Provided all the points you have made, there is still nothing that refutes my submission that everything America is today was built upon the foundation that the slaves created. There is nothing that disputes the fact that other groups that have been treated poorly by the American government have received apologies and reparations, thus setting a precedent. You have not given an argument that counters why millions of Americans alive today contributed to the inequality of African American lives.
You have stated that this is not a unique situation, and in part that is correct. But it is not similar, and I feel I have made that clear why. I do feel, and have shown, that there are Americans alive that share directly in the blame. I have shown that all Americans have benefitted directly. I have shown that there is a precedence in law and action. While I agree this does not absolve continued efforts to improve the society we are all members of, I believe we can never get to that point without addressing an issue that is so important in our history and growth. Denial and avoidance will never resolve this. An apology, and perhaps reparations can.
I thank you again for your interest and response to this matter. I believe that conversations such as this are critical to getting to a resolution. If it’s not spoken about it can’t get better.
Sincerely,
Michael Vass
How about we work the reparation thing from the first slaves and the first slave owners.Seems we all are owed a million buck.So how about we all just refuse it and get over history.
Or we can just kill each other in a game of last race standing.I prefer this to a bunch of whine asses that complain about something they didn't experience themselves.
Seems the laziest and worthless always scammin some way to enslave others and live off their labor.
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